Wireshark · Wireshark-dev: Re: [Wireshark-dev] Feature: option to open windows as tabs

[Roland Knall <rknall@xxxxxxxxx>]

I am not trying to force users to use anything. The whole idea with dockable windows started from a point to be able to use the exact same layout functionality as today, but with a more comfortable configuration.

And I do not think you can compare the layout preferences to your idea. Your idea goes way beyond that. The whole concept of Wireshark is based around a single capture file. And as you already mentioned, this is an issue also for the dockable windows. But it is not solved by the graphical representation, much rather by the representation in memory.

The idea to collect windows at one central point is a good one, but I do not think that adopting a new UI concept which is fundamentally different from every other, is not a good idea. 

The optionality is also a problem for me. If we have a feature with such a big impact, we have to implement it in such a way, that it does not "hide" any open issues. For instance, certain dialogs do not have their own data model, but opt to use the one from the currently open capture file. Some others use their own. Now if I close the capture file, what should be the state of these dialogs? Some will be closed, some might stay open but present an empty view, some others may present their data but not indicate which file it is for, ....

As I mentioned before, I really like the idea of using tabs for information. But not for the mainwindow, if the graphical representation of the information is different in such a fundamental way. I applaud every effort to implement multiple capture files, but I really think this goes into the wrong direction. But I am open to be convinced otherwise.

kind regards,

Roland

Am Mo., 7. Mai 2018 um 12:24 Uhr schrieb Michał Łabędzki <michal.tomasz.labedzki@xxxxxxxxx>:

> One last (but important) argument is screen size. A lot of people have big screens now. The tabbed approach for the main window really only makes sense on smaller screens.

Also, I have a big screen, but it is my feature. I really want to
collect windows in one place to speed up work (like "where is my
window?"). If I need I still can Detach tab and move it to another
monitor.

"Dockable windows" is also fine, but support multiple capture files
will be not comfortable (how to do it?). There is a need to open... at
least new window to see packet list, etc. like before. Of course, the
option to dock it on the right of the previous packet list is will
also nice to have.

> I think tabs for the main window is the wrong approach and will alienate a lot of users

What do you mean by "alienate"? There is already the option that makes
users different from another one: Preferences -> Layout. Please do not
try to force users to use only one way.

What is wrong with tabs those are optional?

2018-05-07 10:39 GMT+02:00 Paul Offord <Paul.Offord@xxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> A couple of things I’ve noted.  Microsoft Message Analyzer uses tabs in the
> main window but I confess I don’t think I’ve used them to look at multiple
> traces.
>
>
>
> Second point, maybe dockable windows would be better.  We use Telerik for
> Workbench and it provides a typical dockable window mechanism.  This meets
> both needs.  If you dock one window on top of another you get tabs.  Or you
> can undock a window and move it to another monitor.  By the way, I’m not
> promoting Telerik here, just using it for illustration.
>
>
>
> Best regards…Paul
>
>
>
> From: Wireshark-dev <wireshark-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
> Roland Knall
> Sent: 07 May 2018 09:17
>
>
> To: Developer support list for Wireshark <wireshark-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Wireshark-dev] Feature: option to open windows as tabs
>
>
>
> I think before we submit this patch, we should agree on a general UI concept
> going forward.
>
>
>
> TL;DR: I think tabs for the main window is the wrong approach and will
> alienate a lot of users
>
>
>
>
>
> There are basically three main uses for tabs in an application (besides from
> preference dialogs).
>
>
>
> The first approach is your basic webbrowser, who displays multiple webpages
> in each individual tab. This actually is something Apple tries to enforce
> anyway and others do as well, but always the content of the tabs are
> similar. It is always a webcontent or a textdocument, .... They can be
> opened and closed individually and do not care about or influence each
> other. The Wireshark equivalent would be a capture file. IO Graph and the
> packet list do influence each other deeply, as does the packet list and
> every other dialog.
>
>
>
> Now in the second approach (e.g. iTunes or music player application), you
> may have tabs which present you the same data in a different method  (Album,
> Artists, Playlist, ...). In these cases the tabs are always present, their
> view can be toggled, but in reality they are always there. Equivalent in
> Wireshark would be, that all dialogs are generated on capture file load and
> be always there, but hidden.
>
>
>
> If tabs are not used for the main window, the usually are being used as
> utility tabs (see your favorite IDE e.g. QtCreator, Visual Studio, Eclipse,
> ...). This would be the third approach. They present additional information
> to the main document, a search possibility, graphical representation, ....
>
>
>
> Wireshark's dialogs do not present different, independant data (first
> approach), but in the most cases an aggregated view (third approach) and
> sometimes an alternative view (second approach). Therefore, making them tabs
> to the main window is contradictory (as stated above). Users would have a
> program which operates very different to other programs they use daily.
> Making dialogs tabs to a utility window (byte view, packet detail) seems
> more to be the natural method. And then they can be dockable as well.
>
>
>
> One last (but important) argument is screen size. A lot of people have big
> screens now. The tabbed approach for the main window really only makes sense
> on smaller screens. On a big screen tabs do not lead to a better utilisation
> of the space, making the work with a lot of tabs more cumbersome.
>
>
>
> regards
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> Am So., 6. Mai 2018 um 09:37 Uhr schrieb Paul Offord
> <Paul.Offord@xxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
>> I *think* Windows DLLs may also function as shared libraries.
>
> They do.  One instance in RAM mapped into the virtual address space of any
> process referencing the DLL.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wireshark-dev <wireshark-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Guy
> Harris
> Sent: 05 May 2018 19:25
> To: Developer support list for Wireshark <wireshark-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Wireshark-dev] Feature: option to open windows as tabs
>
> On May 5, 2018, at 10:04 AM, Peter Wu <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Memory usage will probably suck due to exact copies of the process,
>
> On most if not all UN*Xes, the executable image's code and read-only data,
> and libwireshark's/libwiretap's/libwsutil's code and read-only data, should
> be shared between all of the processes.
>
> You won't, however, share the results of reading in configuration files,
> e.g. the new fields added by reading in the RADIUS and DIAMETER
> dictionaries...
>
> ...unless they're read in by the UI process, and handed to the dissector
> processes as (read-only) shared memory.
>
> I *think* Windows DLLs may also function as shared libraries.
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--
Michał Łabędzki
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